Charlie Arehart

In the second installment of an exclusive two-part CF Advisor interview, Allaire's Vice President of Technology Strategy, Jeremy Allaire, joined Product Marketing Director Adam Berrey in mapping out Allaire's multiple programming language strategies for ColdFusion, Spectra, WDDX, Java, and XTML.

We concluded Part I of our interview at the 1st Annual Allaire Developers Conference in Boston, Massachusetts, by asking Adam Berrey, what he thought were the coolest features for developers in the latest release of ColdFusion - Version 4.5. When Jeremy Allaire joined the discussion, CF Advisor's publisher, Phillip Chonigman, asked him the same question.

Jeremy Allaire (VP of Technology Strategy for Allaire Corp.) – I could reiterate all the things that Adam said. [But, in addition,] I think clearly the support for Linux is a huge win for our customer community.

It was well over a year ago that we began to seriously look at Linux as a platform; and I spent a lot of time on that personally, listening to customers, surveying customers, collecting e-mail threads I'd find in places, and it became very clear that this was going to be a very, very popular platform for serving web systems. I think we announced it over a year ago, and are now delivering it. It's going to be something, in particular with Internet-centric sites, that is going to be a real winner.

And with that, having our product be really natively cross-platform across multiple platforms is really fantastic. Like Adam described, I think there's no single item that [can be pointed to]. Of [all the] little things that people applauded for [at the conference], there's a lot of those enhancements across the board which I think make ColdFusion 4.5 probably the most robust, stable and solid version of our app server [and] I expect people to be able to use [it] for years and be quite happy with it.

CF Advisor (Charles Arehart) – The same thing happened last year in Fort Collins. I don't remember exactly what it was, but something was discussed during one of the similar introductions [at that time] about what's going on with Release 4.0. And it wasn't one of the big features, it was something again kind of small, but it was the kind of thing that made our lives as developers a lot easier.

And to that, I want to ask if there could be a little more focus in the release notes to be more explicit about those new things. I find that you often have to read very carefully, and I want to recommend to anybody reading this article that they look very carefully at the release notes for every release. I mean, for instance, [in] 4.01 I found documented about 50 new features, and some of them were not listed in the highlighted list; I had to distill them out of several different parts of release notes and discussions about different areas of what had changed in 4.01. And I think that a lot of people missed those [things].

In fact, I'm looking at this thing here and I see check marks of what's new in 4.0 and 4.5, and I wonder what about the 4.01 changes. Now they may be too small for a marketing document, admittedly, cause it's the key features that make people make strategic decisions. But they are the kind of things that make the developer's lives much easier.

There were a lot of really great things in 4.01, and I have seen a lot of great little things in 4.5. But again you've got to distill them out, and I'm just wondering if there's any intention to make those kind of little things a little more apparent to people. These two conferences show you that sometimes it's not the strategic things, but little things [that can make a difference to developers].

Look Closely At The Release Notes

Adam Berrey (Product Marketing Director for Allaire Corp.) – I can understand your concerns, and that's a great suggestion. It's also a really good recommendation that people should look closely at the release notes and pay attention to what's going on in there. We're building software in Internet time, and a lot of times you get a lot of stuff flowing into that context. There's a lot of information in there, so it's a good place to go to dig stuff up. The other thing to do is spend some time in our support forums and our knowledge base, because a lot of the little tweaks and a lot of the great new stuff gets talked about there.

Jeremy – Plus we've got to keep Ben Forta in business. (LOL)

CF Advisor (Phillip Chonigman) – Jeremy, I'd like to get back to where we started with Adam, when he explained why the newest version was being called 4.5 instead of 5.0. Evidently you called it 4.5 because you already have something in mind for Release 5.0 that will take ColdFusion to the next level. Where are you going to be going with the next stage of the product?

Jeremy – First I'd step back and I'd suggest that folks should be thinking more broadly about all of our product lines, because — clearly — the ColdFusion App Server is the core and what the vast majority of developers work with.

Jeremy Allaire: "I'd suggest that folks should be thinking more broadly about all of our product lines..."

When they're thinking about working with Allaire as a partner, and working with Allaire as a provider of technology to help them with the web, they also need to be thinking about multiple visual tools products — our app server, the Allaire Spectra package system, and all the pieces of technology there, plus new parts that will be introduced [within the] next year. So on the whole I think there's [currently] a lot to chew on for folks.

Support For Multiple Language Models

Clearly we have a lot of intentions for things moving forward on our application server. Some of the things I indicated [in my conference keynote address] revolved around really extending our platform to support multiple programming language models. All of the capabilities of our app server are currently exposed through the cfml tag set, and we're obviously moving so that all those capabilities are also available to Java programmers through Java based API's, and really starting to make Java the preferred extensibility and deployment environment.

A lot of this has to do with what we're seeing with companies increasingly [employing] large scale systems that blend skill sets of multiple types of developers. So we have fundamental business architecture work happening in Java — rapid development work through tag based libraries and tag based programming models for assembling and deploying sites, as well as the presentation and design focused work that people do with html, dhtml and things along those lines.

So, we're focused on making sure that our platform as a whole is accessible to all those kinds of developers. A good analogy to really think of where we're headed is to look at what Microsoft accomplished in the last 10 years by moving Windows as a platform, just like our app servers are a platform, to have multiple language environments that could use the Windows API. So for instance you had a C++ model for working with all the services in Windows, and you had VB as a high level development model to work with the Windows services, as some people were with our app server.

Likewise they were able to build a fairly comprehensive set of solution products — Exchange, SQL Server, and other parts of Back Office — which could be used by developers of all types. And likewise that's what we're doing with the Spectra product line is making those available. So the browser detection engine, the merchandising frameworks, the content management frameworks, and all these things that are part of Spectra as tag libraries today for ColdFusion, would also then become available through Java based API's.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – Nothing specific then at this point on [Release] 5.0? Just a general direction.

Jeremy – I think that's the most clear direction I can give you. There's certainly some areas of technology we're heavily focused on.

We believe that the next stage of growth in how businesses use the Internet is going to be leveraging other applications on the network. Application service providers beginning to expose micro-apps that can be embedded in multiple sites, businesses starting to wed their own computing infrastructure together with other businesses, content sites doing syndication.

Key Supplier of Agent-based, XML-based, and middleware technologies

There's a whole set of technology problems surrounding that — agent-based, XML-based, middleware technologies — which we aim to be a key supplier of, and to integrate pretty deeply with everything else we've done today.

And in line with the way we've approached technology and products in the past, to make that extremely straightforward for people to take advantage of, and not require computer science degrees to get your work done.

Adam – One of the cool things in CF 4.5 is that we're bundling an XML parser and an XSL processor on the CD — and they're both Java objects that you can call with the new Java connectivity. We're really excited about XML and we think it's going to play a very big role in e-business applications. So we're going to make a big investment in XML going forward.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – So this upgrade is not something that a 4.0 user should gloss-over, waiting for the next big release to come out?

Jeremy – No, no — definitely not! Across the board — just making the day-to-day work better — there's a lot there. Just making their systems more scalable and reliable — there's a lot there. Being able to take advantage of the additional new technology, especially for enterprise level customers, that's going to be really important.

Jeremy Allaire: "I'd imagine that nearly every one of our hardcore customers has a couple of Linux boxes already up — ready, fired-up, ready to go..."

And obviously a huge number of our developers want to begin implementing Linux as a server platform. There's enormous pent-up demand. I'd imagine that nearly every one of our hardcore customers has a couple of Linux boxes already up — ready, fired-up, ready to go — and they're going to be putting CF 4.5 on there just as soon as they can get their hands on it, and giving that a run.

CF Advisor (C.A.) – I'd like to follow up on the XML aspect and WDDX — because that is another one of those technologies that, if you understand it, is so incredible and is such a prescient application of XML. So many people are focusing on XML for the browser, and XML for documents, and that's all great, but what you guys did in taking XML and applying it to a really valuable business application, of being able to transmit data — that was so on target. And yet it's one of those things that's not going to make people really excited. They've really got to learn about it. I know that the wddx.org site is out there, but is there anything else that you guys are doing to help promote that, or is there something maybe changing in the future that would be a more significant reason to push it then?

Jeremy Allaire: "Clearly WDDX is a fantastic core technology from Allaire. We released it as an open technology, it's not a proprietary technology, it's freely available under an open source license — anyone can take it..."

Jeremy – Clearly WDDX is a fantastic core technology from Allaire. We released it as an open technology, it's not a proprietary technology, it's freely available under an open source license — anyone can take it, it's available for every platform, and we're seeing extensive use of it. WDDX is available for download from Allaire's developer site and the wddx.org site. Now, this technology is a base technology that we're expanding on dramatically. I've alluded to XML Internet middleware and the ability to tie together multiple distributed sites and applications. WDDX plays a fairly central role in that, and you'll be seeing additional services, if you will, layered on top of that. The other piece is that, fundamentally, Allaire Spectra was made possible by WDDX.

Spectra's Object Database and XML

So for folks who want to get their heads around the implications of WDDX and how to use it, we push it to its extreme in Allaire Spectra. There's an object database which is included in Spectra which is all built on WDDX. It's a way to use the advantages of XML to manage and store content and marry that to a very structured programming model.

It's also used extensively in Allaire Spectra for doing application integration and distributed applications. There's an XML remote procedure called "Framework" that's included with Spectra — it's all based on . So, there's a lot there, and I think to the extent that people invest time in Spectra and in the content object SDK, they will get a lot of exposure to that, and be able to take advantage of that. So we're going to be evangelizing all those things. I'm going to be talking a bunch more about this during the course of the conference.

Adam – Charlie, another thing we're going to do to really drive WDDX out into the market more broadly is we're going to be launching a new developer relations group [in 2000]. And that group's mission will be to really evangelize and take our technology out to developers — and to provide some of those really technical, hard-core materials that developers need to be successful.

Jeremy – Like SDK's, tool kits, extended scripts, documentation, and other pieces. That has to do with the fact that we're moving from the app server product line into a platform role, where we're supplying a range of server products, a range of tools — and that will only expand over time.

A huge challenge in doing that is keeping a really large and loyal developer community in tune with what you're doing. And getting them everything they need to help them learn, understand, build and build businesses around our technology platform. And that's accomplished not just through releasing product, it's the whole technology education structure that has to go around that.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – You're trying to build a more integrated company — bringing together all its various facets. You recently acquired JRun, are there plans for any other acquisitions to help broaden your capabilities?

Jeremy Allaire: "we're trying to fulfill a role as being the leading e-business platform vendor.... we think we have a good sense for where that's going to evolve to — and over time we're going to build and buy technology as needed to reach that goal...."

Jeremy –Jeremy — I cannot comment on that specifically. Those kinds of details and decisions. What I can say is that, as a company, we're trying to fulfill a role as being the leading e-business platform vendor. And we think that there's a set of requirements for that and we certainly have mapped those out ourselves, and we think we have a good sense for where that's going to evolve to — and over time we're going to build and buy technology as needed to reach that goal.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – As far as your competition goes, do you see anyone else coming out with a package for Linux like ColdFusion just has, that can compete with you guys at this stage? Or are they behind on the curve?

Jeremy – The competitive landscape is going to vary depending on what you want to look at. So, for instance, if you're comparing our html editor to other html editors there are certain vendors who would be there; if you're comparing our app server to other app server vendors then there's a difference in the customers; if you're comparing our app server on Linux to other technologies that are available on Linux, there would be different vendors there as well.

Free Linux Scripting Engine

To more directly answer your question, we are certainly one of the very first commercial app server vendors to ship on Linux, and that's significant. To date Linux has been successful based on free scripting engines that have been available, typically as part of the Apache web server, and we will be shipping a free scripting engine, "CF Express," on Linux as well.

So that would be our primary competitor for that market — people who want a free scripting engine for Linux. I think, then, customers who want a commercial app server that's ready for larger scale deployments and is tied to standard tools, I think we'll be in a very, very strong position to be the leader on that platform.

Adam – I think on Linux, we have the same differentiation, the same motivations that we have on all the other platforms — you've got cfml, and you've got the great services and the ColdFusion engine, you've got the power of the Visual Tools. And so when you're deploying on Linux, the same reasons that we compete so effectively and so successfully on Windows NT and on Solaris, we're going to carry with us into Linux.

Jeremy – Some other interesting notes on that is, for instance, not only are we bringing a commercial app server and all the things that come with that to Linux, we're also bringing some technologies that have simply never been on that platform. So our clustering platform, all the things that we're doing for clustering in our app server.

[Up until now,] there was no clustering solution on Linux. There are some freeware pieces for doing redirection, but nothing as advanced as what we're doing in our app server. And that's just exciting from a customer perspective — they can get commodity servers, put those together and scale to the moon, very inexpensive[ly]!

CF Advisor (P.C.) – I guess I'd be remiss not to take advantage of the opportunity to ask the classic question that developers out there in the field always ask. When I'm evangelizing ColdFusion, there's always the question, "Well, what about Microsoft? What's going on there?" And I'm sure there're lots of great things to explain to them. I've heard some of those said, but this is a unique opportunity for them to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Jeremy – One of the most interesting things when you get a question like that, I don't think it's a question of Allaire or Microsoft, clearly. Because everything we do is pretty well built on top of Microsoft's platforms, so if you're committed to Microsoft's platform you can take advantage of it.

Now, specifically in the web software product categories, where we do compete with Microsoft — we have products, they have products, and so on — I think developers need to look at the focus of the vendor, and is the vendor focused on specifically the needs of companies and developers who are building for the web.

Do they have the set of tools and the set of other solutions that flesh out a complete platform? And I think that if customers make that evaluation, they'll find that we are the purest, as it were, of the vendors supplying this base.

Microsoft certainly has a very strong technology and very strong products, typically very heavily leveraged into their own platform — their client platform, their server platform — the pieces which really are something that developers need to be cognizant of.

The other thing, I think, is that, in general, we've continued to make huge investments in all of the niceties of a web application server. And, in the feedback, our customers are constantly iterating on that.

Whereas the comparable technology from Microsoft hasn't really revved in years and it's sort of a low bullet, on a feature list, of a feature of NT. It's not a major focus for the company.

So again, if you're a customer who's looking for a web-centric app server platform, and more generally for an e-business platform, there really aren't many comparable alternatives [to Allaire].

CF Advisor (C.A.) – And very clearly not one that's available on more platforms — the Linux support, the broad UNIX support — it's an incredible differentiating [feature] now.

Jeremy – Yes, absolutely.

Highly Integrated E-Business Platform

Adam – I think the fact that, as Jeremy said, which I totally agree with, as we're so web-centric and the fact that we're delivering a highly integrated e-business platform is a key thing that we differentiate [ourselves] with.

I think the other thing is that we're open. If you choose to build on our e-business platform, you're going to be able to take advantage of the very best services offered in a variety of different operating systems, different programming models. So if you're on Windows NT, and you're committed to Windows, we're going to plug into BackOffice really tightly; we're going to let you leverage everything in Windows DNA and the whole com-plus architecture.

At the same time, if you don't want to lock yourself into that, we'll let you run on Solaris, with CORBA, and take advantage of all the services and the functionality on Solaris.

Or, if you're looking for more of a Linux solution, you can that, you can do Linux.

And if you build apps with ColdFusion you can mix-and-match, you can switch, you can swap — you're not locked-in. And [in] the companies that we talk to — I hear this again, and again, and again — what folks want to do is, they want to assemble a small group of best-of-breed companies and focus on that, but they don't want to be locked-in to a single vendor. And we give them an option.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – That brings us to the final part of this interview. You are now closing out your fifth year since the release of ColdFusion 1.0, and I'd like to have some idea of what you foresee five years from now. Could you have imagined that you would be at this stage [only] five years after [the release] of 1.0 and what do you foresee [for the future]?

Jeremy – I think we certainly could have imagined that we'd be at this stage. I think the mission and the vision of the company has not changed from day one, and J.J. [Allaire] gave us a really strong template for what we're up to as a company.

Based on that, I think where you'd expect us in five years is probably the same kind of exponential growth we've seen — we hope for something along those lines. I think our mission is a very broad mission. It's conceivable that we'll have many, many more product lines and technology, and expanding to get into new businesses as they emerge.

Potentially the home Internet server market, or other types of Internet appliances and how they relate to expanding the range of applications we provide on top of our platform, for example, would be a [possible] direction. So five years is actually not that long, as Adam and I can certainly attest, relative to what we're up to here. I think in five years we'll probably look back and feel the same way we do today. But, I don't expect anything short of great success.

Adam – I think ultimately, as Jeremy said, we have a broad mission. We're about empowering people with technology. Ultimately, where we are in five years is going to be a function of where our customers lead us, because in the end they're the real visionaries.

Jeremy – That's right.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – Can you guys put a number on the established base of ColdFusion users at this point in time?

Jeremy – On the actual number of ColdFusion users — the numbers we use are tens of thousands of organizations using our application server. I think the actual number is like 40,000.

Adam – And we think there are over 100,000 developers using ColdFusion. And if you look across our product line, there are well over 400,000 developers using all of our products.

CF Advisor (P.C.) – Well, that seems like a good place to end today's interview. Thank you very much gentlemen. On behalf of Charles, myself and the entire readership of CF Advisor, we truly appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts with us and look forward to hearing from you again soon.